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Morning Joe

News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.

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Boehner 46, Us 33, Biden 24, Washington 23, John Boehner 20, America 15, Joe 15, Pat Buchanan 11, U.s. 11, John Heilemann 7, Mike Barnicle 7, Italy 6, United States 6, Obama 6, Brazil 5, At&t 5, Florida 5, Usa 5, Greece 5, Nancy Pelosi 5,
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  MSNBC    Morning Joe    News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers  
   and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.  

    July 11, 2011
    6:00 - 9:00am EDT  

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you awake? awake. well rob has the answer. >> i'm hosting a meeting of barnacle groupies anonymous. >> you are alone this morning. anything else? >> yes. archie writes, just woke up to put my hearing aid in. it's time for way too elderly. >> don't forget the hair. it's something i clearly forget every day. rob, thanks very much. "morning joe" starts right now. >> this president is committed to bringing economic soundness to this country. that take as big deal. a lot of pain. democrats are upset the president talked about pain on their side of the ail and republicans are saying no way
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will we give tax relief to middle income americans. they want to continue tax relief to the wealthy. everyone agrees a number around $4 trillion will make a serious debt on our deficit. it will send a statement to the world that the u.s. has gotten ahold of their fiscal problems and they are moving forward. it will give confidence to the american people that we can move forward to bring economic soundness. that's the president's commitment. >> 6:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." look at that nice live look at times square. joe is looking spify today. he went shopping. it is monday, july 11th. >> i don't know what that means. >> we have msnbc -- well, yes. this is unusual. we have msnbc contributor mike
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barnicle, john heilemann. what's so funny? >> yeah, what's so funny? i don't get it. he's back. >> we can't get him to leave. we have "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner and in washington, pat buchanan. that's perfect for the story we have. >> a lot going on right now. friday, saturday, there was talk of the grand bargain, $4 trillion. boehner backed off, said it's going to look like $2 trillion. let's go around the table. what happened steve rattner? >> boehner couldn't sell tax cuts to his caucus. i must say -- i'm sorry tax increases, thank you. it's still early. a year ago i'm not sure i would have thought of boehner as a
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constructive force. i think he's trying to bring the group together. pawlenty and michele bachmann, you have people so dug in, they are not going anywhere. >> they have signed pledges. >> excuse me? >> they have signed pledges, they are not going to raise taxes, put them to normal numbers, they are not doing it. >> boehner backed off a $4 trillion goal. "the washington post" is supporting his number two. they will not go along with it. where do we stand this morning on a budget deal that's got to get done? >> i think we are in good shape, comparatively. boehner stepped away from the tax because he wouldn't be speaker if he went along with them. the situation where you saw
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boehner say we have to go with the biden cut is right. boehner can put together his entire caucus, the majority, bring along a few democrats, pass the biden cuts, send them to the senate and work with manchin and pass their budget cuts and send it to barack obama's white house and say take it or leave it, mr. president. he will take it. the republicans are in the seat. if they would only realize it, get the taxes off the table, pass an extension of the debt ceiling. if it's only for ten months fine. get cuts. the market, look, the ten year bond is getting 3%. they are not panicking. they know a deal can be made. >> if they go the biden way, you are talking act the mess of discretionary spending, the tax code. even the wall street journal
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says the tax code needs to be reformed. it allows corporations to pay zero, billionaires to pay 14% of taxes and people making $1 million or more to pay on average 18% of their taxes. if you go for the biden deal, it's off the table and you don't touch entitlements and suddenly, there's no long-term economic fix. >> there's not. the biden deal is wrong for policy grounds. it's a distorted way. i commend biden for getting us there. it's incomplete. it needs other pieces. i disagree with pat on the politics. i don't think you get it through the senate. i think you have a revolt on the democratic side. you have a stalemate. it's a food fight going on. the president is hanging tough and should hang tough. >> this is one of the few times
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republicans are. i think they hold cards. these are people that have been saying since january 4th when they got sworn in, we are not going to raise the debt ceiling. i came back day one, after they got sworn in and it's always been their position. they will, pat buchanan wrote an op-ed. the establishment under panic. they are not under panic. they will sit there and stare at barack obama. i bet you, i just bet you, they will not blame. >> they might not blame and they do have cards in their hands. how are they going to play the cards? if you listen to what daley said yesterday, he frame worked the coming election. he said the question is going to be now. are the republicans so id
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logically driven we have a real wet blanket, his phrase, on the growth of economies. they are afraid to make a move because they are unable to figure out what will happen in washington. >> john heilemann, we have a guy down in washington, d.c., when you mention 1992 will get a toothy grin on his face because -- see, look at that. there he goes. he knows where i'm going. george h.w. bush said read my lips, no new taxes, just like these freshmen that got away, not only in washington, but across america. over 1, 000 republican candidates signed pledges in what happened to be the biggest nationwide landslide on state and national level. i think in u.s. history. they are saying, wait a second. it's not like we didn't promise voters this was going to be the
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core of our message if we got elected. what if they decide to go with boehner? have they not set themselves up with the pat buchanan's in 2012 and lose their seats later? >> maybe. what we learned over the last weekend is that john boehner didn't want to be speaker. what he learned is he is not really the speaker of the house. eric cantor is the speaker of the house. >> is it important for these candidates who made pledges to keep their word? >> they made lots of pledges. they say they are in favor of fixing the long term fiscal picture and get the deficit down. one way to do that is taking an approach back on the table. i want to look at the policy and who has behaved in a way according to a lot of people at
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this table is in accordance to reality. the president was willing to confront his base on friday. we criticized president obama correctly for punting on the budget. now, president obama says, i'm going to put it on the table. nancy pelosi and the democrats went crazy on friday saying we can't believe barack obama is doing this. he's willing to put a lot of political capital on the table and talk about everything. revenue is part of that but everything else. what john boehner said is he was willing to talk about it. john boehner ran away from it. it may be an assessment of reality but it's showing courage. >> that is one narrative that came out from the white house this weekend. i will tell you the narrative from capitol hill was boehner started to back away when he saw all the entitlement cuts became
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nebulous. remember the government shutdown that was going to save $38 billion and cost us $3 billion. there's a feeling among republicans in washington, not just now but when i was there. i'm sure before that. anytime you try to cut, there are always gimmicks and triggers there are always ways they get you in the end. you turn around and a $38 billion cut ends up being a $3 billion spending increase. it's how washington works. it's how they win. >> i was in the white house in 1985. ronald reagan pulled me aside. he said pat, promise me $3 in spending cuts. i got $3 in taxes for every dollar in spending. let me go to your point. you are right about tax reform.
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lowered rates and get rid of the exemptions. it's good politics. here is where boehner's opportunity lies. he can come back to the caucus and take the league. president obama expects out to lunch to get $2 trillion in taxes. boehner can craft this thing to go across to the senate. the senate won't take it. fine. let the liberal democrats veto the thing and the house can pass another and send it over with less cuts until they finally take it. the republicans got past the debt ceiling. they have to have major cuts on there. if they can't get them out of the senate and they veto it and stop it, who shut the government down. >> if we get to something so we don't have to go beyond the deadline. is it good for the economy because we can move on.
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quickly, there was a 75 minute meeting at the white house yesterday. it's where everything was supposed to get completely done. i turned on the tv and nobody was covering. bill daley says the president remains committed to a bigger plan. do they have what it takes to improve the economy? >> i believe one of the blankets on companies and the system is a question tooz whether or not our political system can get together, solve big problems or just kick the can. if you look at the statements of the rating agencies who questioned the fiscal soundless of the country, it's about our political system, not being willing or able to take out a big staff. you complain and wine about the political system all the time. get involved and make the
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statement about needing a balanced approach. >> where do we go from here? >> bill daley has the point about the business community. one of the best things washington can do is get their act together in a way that showed people there was leadership and activity down there. >> now both sides are using the phrase kick the can down the road. they are accusing each other of that. does that help the economy? does it at least get movement going? >> it depends. the biden cuts, though, they don't really go after medicare. they don't go after tax reform. they don't go after medicaid. they don't go after cutting the defense. >> there's a couple things. first of all -- >> we are just talking cutting domestic discretionary spending, that is not helpful at all.
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>> no, it's not helpful at all in the long run. nobody is talking $1 trillion of tax cuts. the most -- tax increase, excuse me. the most is $1 trillion in tax increases in a balanced plan that includes dealing with entitlements and defense. >> steve, excuse me. look, republicans made a commitment to the american people they won't raise taxes. it's against their principles. why would you add $500 billion or $1 trillion or $2 trillion in tax hikes in on economy that is flat on it back, sent into intensive care. you don't raise taxes on the private sector when the economy is in trouble. how do we get businesses to hire. do you think putting $1 trillion
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on business, they are going to say this is great. we have $1 trillion in new taxes, let's go create jobs. >> let's separate two issues. the fiscal problem we have with a budget deficit with $14 trillion in debt, all those other obligations. it has to be dealt with. >> let me respond to that. the fact that the federal government is spending 25% of the gross national product in rising or the problem that drove us into a recession. we are collecting 15%. >> he has a chart that will help you respond to that. >> if you look at the deficit today, $1.5 trillion. now let's break it into components. $400 billion of that came from the bush tax cuts. if they wouldn't have happened, we would have $424 billion let
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on the deficit at the moment. another $1 trillion came from the gdp. spending grew at an 8% increase during the bush administration. the obama stimulus plan, what's left of it is only $134 billion this year. >> but steve -- >> let me finish. if you add it together, if we would not have done the bush tax cuts, there would be a $47 billion surplus at the moment. >> let me talk now. spending -- no child left behind, the war in iraq, some said don't try to build a nation in afghanistan. stop spending all this money. when the democrats came in in 2009, they increased every department 10%. if it's 25% the feds are taking and the 12 to 15 the state and
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local are taking. that's why they are all cutting back. >> pat, pat, pat -- >> you will drive this economy deeper into recession if you put $1 trillion in taxes on it. >> pat, i don't disagree with cutting spending. i'm trying to tell you 70% of how we got into this problem was spending and 30% was cutting spending that we wouldn't afford. it happens to be 70% spending reductions. 30% tax increase. >> this is one place i agree with krugman. mike barnicle should be in this. jobs are the thing. we have to create jobs. how does hammering business with $1 trillion in tax increases when government is going down in size, they created the only jobs. john heilemann. >> just as point of fact -- was
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about letting part of the bush tax cuts expire after 2012. that's where the revenue is going to come. no tax increase in 2011 or 2012. it was raising taxes on the richest. that is the most popular proposal in terms of politics of this. 75% of the people in the country want to see the bush tax decreases expire. the recession will be well and truly over. >> yeah. all right. >> i have a question to ponder during the commercial break. >> please. >> how does this get done when john boehner has 80 or 90 members of the caucus that won't agree on anything. >> the center. >> coming up, we are going to
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look at this. we'll bring in chuck shumer of new york and kay bailey hutchison of texas. bob graham will tell us about his political playbook. penalty kicks. first, we go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, i hope you had a wonderful weekend. if you are joining us from new england ar the mid-atlantic, high pressure is going up today. 91 in pitburg. 80-mile-per-hour winds, the storms are heading for chicago this morning. a heads up there. the heat continues through the middle of the country. you are watching "morning joe." ♪
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certainly, from my vantage point, there is expectation that will be the case. otherwise, it would be a real shock and it would be bad news for the u.s. economy. i hope there's enough bipartisan intelligence of the challenge that is head of the united states but also of the rest of the world. >> christine la guard is asking for bipartisan intelligence. >> yes. >> time to take a look at the morning papers. financial times, oil giant bp, you know, this came out friday afternoon, not surprising. they are seeking to end payments for future losses as part of the compensation fund for gulf oil spill victims. bp noted in february there was
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evidence of a strong economic recovery under way. ask your friend about that. >> yeah. >> it would take adjustments to claims as appropriate. july 1, bp used $4.5 billion from their fund. they don't want to use the rest. it's done. everybody is fine. it's lame. >> head of the chamber of commerce in pensacola is slammed. >> they should spend every penny of that money. >> they should. >> small business execs reluctant to hire amid economic uncertain uncertainty. 64% of businesses were not expecting to add to payrolls this year. 12% planned to cut jobs and there is the economy in a nutshell. >> there's the debate. if we raise taxes for some of the businesses that raise money,
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do you think they will continue not to hire people? what is the threat here? >> the threat of taxes breeds small business owners. >> they are sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for this. >> if the tax cuts don't go into effect until the end of 2012 or the beginning of 2013, if i'm a small business owner i say what does that tax, it doesn't affect me for a couple years. >> the deal boehner was trying to cut was going to be coupled with lower rates for businesses. this is the whole package he was trying to get implemented, they were going to have tax reform, a lowering and flattening of the rate structure with letting the bush tax cuts expour. they would benefit from a tax
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deal they were trying to figure out. >> i think it's the lack of leadership and coherence that people plan on. people want to plan their business. we have no idea how the government is planning their business. >> big and small. >> big and small. >> but there are big questions. when i head back to pensacola, i have small business owners asking me, what are they going? i heard they are talking a war tax and a that tax. i'm struggling. the tourists aren't coming this year like last year. what's going on, joe? >> they are still talking. >> all the new taxes and regulations. they don't sit and watch the wall street journal early. they get up early and open their store up at 5:00, get ready for their first customers at 6:00 or 7:00. they work all day.
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they hear about taxes. that does, on the small business level freeze economic ak fifty. >> it's all part of the uncertainly we are all talking about. if we could get a plan, it would be reassuring to them. it would have a very positive impact on the fiscal situation. i think that would help with business confidence. i get that uncertainty. it's the problem. >> one thing that the president and congress if they sell grus to get the money out is the way this affects small business owners is if we don't take care of it, interest rates go up. the 3% interest rates become 6% and 7% interest rates. >> i know the argument, joe. the reality now is, the political reality is john
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boehner walked away from the table. you are not going to get revenue increases. boeper is not going to commitment suicide trying to do it. he will pass the debt ceiling and significant spending cuts to which the house agrees. what steve says is, well, if there are cuts like that, the senate won't accept it. if he does, the senate will veto it. i don't believe that. they are not going to put the government at fault simply because the house will not give them the tax cuts they want. this is where we are at. if boehner will stay strong and work the the public conservatives and conservative democrats, they have $1 trillion to $2 trillion, it is up to the
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senate. >> does anybody around this table believe that barack obama is the river boat gambler that bill clinton and dick morris were? i don't. >> no. >> at the end of the day, he will sign any bill he gets that extends the debt ceiling. chief white house correspondent from political. mike allen. good morning. >> good morning. >> you are reporting on the dynamic developing between house speaker boehner and eric cantor. tell us about it. >> that's right. speaker boehner got blown back from republicans below him and the freshmen who signed all the pledges, niz number two wouldn't vote for the 4 trillion tlars pop up message.
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boehner has been the deal maker. we were told at the white house meeting cantor was doing more talking than boehner. that tells you a little bit about the dynamic in that caucus. >> interesting. does that surprise you? >> there was reporting in a couple places that said boehner seemed deflated and was quiet. cantor seemed to be driving the bus. if that's the case, it's evidence of what really is the story. they have the power and john boehner is along for the ride at this point. >> whoa. >> part of the problem here, too, seems that weather it's iraq war, we have these big decisions to be made with a clock ticking. if we did things in a rational
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manner, the tax reform is needed. we could have serious tax reform that i think both sides would agree on that would increase revenue. we are not going to have time to do that now. >> hopefully it will happen in 2013. i have been doing deals for a long time. you have a dead lip and crisis. i think it will happen. it won't be pretty or solve long-term projects. i think there's fwoung to be a revenue peace. >> you think it will pass? >> some kind of compromise. mike allen, thank you very much. see you soon. still ahead, we are going to bring in wall street journalist writing, peggy noonan. a heated series between the red
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live shot ofwashington, d.c. welcome back to "morning joe." 36 past the hour. a quick look at the news. iraqi police -- panetta is not in the green zone. he was not near the sight of the attack. he's making his first trip to iraq and afghanistan since succeeding robert gates at the pentagon saying today, he is concerned about iran supplying weapons to iraqi extremists. he urged the government to step up pressure on militias that attack american troops. he also said this about al qaeda -- >> my goals are to defeat al qaeda. obviously, we made an important
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start with that with getting rid of bin laden. i was convinced in my prior capacity and this capacity, we are within reach of strategically defeating al qaeda. >> i think it's safe to say that al qaeda may be in its death throws. >> how many are left in afghanistan? >> 50. >> right. >> they are in their death throws. >> panetta went on to say the u.s. is targeting 20 leaders key to the terrorist network survival and continued efforts could cripple al qaeda as a threat to the u.s. resignations and arrests, the news of the world. >> this was ugly! oh, my god! >> this is not going to end with the news of the world. the final edition saying thank you and good-bye.
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i don't think -- okay. it comes as the family of a murdered teenage girl accused of hacking. he is calling on news of the world owner rupert murdock to buy british sky broadcasting. he's making a bid for the satellite giant. he's promising to vote in it. shares dropped sharply in trading this morning. explosive new allegations in the phone scandal. the mirror announced news of the world asked for voice mails of 9/11 victims. the tabloid wanted phone numbers and details of calls leading up to the terrorist attacks almost a decade ago.
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. the computer is implozed because of the phone capping scandals. murdock wants to buy sky news. it would be a big, big purchase for his empire, media empire. now doesn't seem like the time to get what he wants. >> no. he's been trying to get this approved for a year. there's already resistance and now this on top of it. >> the news of the warld, threw it -- one has been arrested. senior former aid to cameron was arrested. >> that's the problem, laborers are going to want to stop it anyway.
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political support sr. rumbling rapidly. on this side of the pond, everybody talking abdomen mike barnicle. up next, luke russert joins the table for the must read opinion pages. we'll be right back. (telephone ring. pick up) usa prime credit. my name ...peggy. you got problem?
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[ woman ] whenever i needed her, she was there for me. now i'm here for her. [ female announcer ] ask the doctor about your loved one trying the exelon patch. visit exelonpatch.com to learn more. here is something from "the los angeles times" about style, frankly. tim pawlenty's presidential campaign rests on this question. will republican voters itching for confrontation tend toward a soft-spoken bland man. >> look, if people want the
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entertainer in chief, they should vote for somebody else. we have a president that gave false hope for the country. if you want executive leadership on taxes, spending, health care and spending, vote for me. >> it's interesting the republican candidates are taking in washington. i don't think it's helping. that could be my skewed vision. time for the must read opinion pages. we'll start with "the new york times," paul krugman and luke russert. what is going on in capitol hill? seriously. it's ridiculous. >> do you have nine hours? >> no. >> the economy is not fixing itself. the bond vigilantes and structural unemployment lasts only in the imaginations of
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pundits. listening to what serious people say about the economy, you would think the problem was no, we can't. but the reality is no, we won't. every pundit is part of the problem. how do we turn that around at this point, given where they are in washington? >> i don't think it's the pun t pundi pundits. we have elections. they voted for a change. paul krugman doesn't like it. some of us aren't in love with it. it's politics. there are things we can do to fix the economy that don't have long term budget consequences. the politics are not around that. >> it is politics of the moment. pat buchanan believes it's conviction on the side of the republicans not to raise taxes. it's their belief, their philosophy and they will not bend. pat, have you ever cut a deal in your life and why can't we do
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it? >> ronald reagan cut gasoline tax and other taxes. the reason republicans can't do it is basically, we don't believe it's the right thing for the economy. we have given our word that we won't do it. we just saw last week, it's headed back into intensive care. it's a mistake. don't do it. >> okay. except if we don't have a deal, isn't that as bad for the economy? >> there's two things. one thing, call it the barnicle argument. i'm serious. where is the jobs program here and the deficit cutting here? it's separate. i agree with krugman, where is the jobs program for growth. this is tough stuff. that's not what you need to get
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the economy going. si an gain, back to reagan. it worked. what obama is doing has not worked. >> pat, on the jobs stuff. let's talk about who has the juice to get a deal done that would result in jobs. that is a far more important issue than the deficit. mr. luke russert, covers congress for a living, who has the juice, john boehner or eric cantor? >> it's an interesting question. in terms of who has it, it's a combination of sorts. eric cantor has been careful not to be outflanked from the right side. he has done it to john boehner on occasion. if you look at the course, boehner putting cancer in was intentional. any deal delivered would have
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been brought by eric cantor. cantor pulled out. boehner is more of a deal maker by nature. he's been in congress for a long time. what you are seeing is reflective of it. a tax increase is not possible because of where we are. the thought of losing the support is what they all fear daily. it's surprising but understand, on capitol hill, if you believe in the republican conference that you are outflanked on the right, it's cause for alarms to go off. look at orin hatch. the word said by a conservative media have a lot of effect on these guys. look what happened in 2010. they had to assure themselves and not be flanked on the right.
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don't forget that president obama wanted to have serious reform within a grand bargain. nancy pelosi was not buying that. while he would have been able to sell a deal because democrats cave, shall we say, with their president. they walk the plank. had it gone forward, nancy pelosi saw the chance to reclaim speakership go off the table. would see see it in buffalo? if you have medicare in it, it's off the table. there's a lot on the right and the left. >> do you love covering capitol hill. >> it's fun watching you watch him. you changed his diapers, right? >> we've come a long way. it took awhile to change his diapers. >> thank you, mike.
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>> uncle mike. >> chuck schumer and kay bailey hutchison. we'll be right back. [ grunts ]
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huge sports weekend. women's world cup. >> my goodness. exciting. >> it was huge. a match between the usa and brazil. tied at one. we head into extra time. down a player because of a red card. they give up a quick goal to brazil. it's a second of the match. not looking good for team usa then. down to the final minutes. a beautiful center pass. heads it in to tie it. watch this. watch this. >> safe. >> all right. boom. there you go. i don't know how they do that. >> i don't either. >> 2-2 now. they make it 3-2.
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>> solo! makes a terrific diving save. gives the usa a chance to save it. clinching goal, usa wins it in penalty kick. they face france on wednesday. that's huge. huge. >> that was a great moment, mike. great moment for the country. on twitter, a lot of the big athletes like lebron james were congratulating the women. i was at a game hearing loud commotions. it's the bar at nationals park, people watching the game. i had no idea what was going on. i didn't know they were into it. >> tell me what twitter is after the show. >> mike, you are on twitter. i try to pump you up on it. >> orioles-red sox, heated
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series. a bench clearing brawl. they both got turned out of the game. yesterday, kevin euclid, boom! center field. ties it. next inning, kyle making his first major league start. hits reynolds in the hand. boom! reynolds had to leave the game. both benches get warm. he gets hit. the umpire warns both benches. wayland on the mound. high and inside. that was the last pitch of the game. they get ejected. sixth inning, another ejection? mike gonzalez throws one behind ortiz. he stayed cool. there he is. that's okay. >> he's still in charge.
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>> he did. >> like a groupie. >> they win 8-6. >> did any team own baltimore like the red sox owned baltimore? you can't see it. >> you know, let's talk about the guy that just can't go wrong. >> i have him on my fantasy. >> what did he say? i laugh because this guy puts a lot of pressure on. >> don't go there. >> seriously. >> he's doing well. >> next on "morning joe" -- pit stop. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans,
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i do firmly believe that one of the wet blankets on this economy and companies is a question as to weather or not our political system, whether the leaders can get together and solve big problems or just kick the can. if you look at the statements of the rating agencies, it's about our political system not being willing or able, seemingly, to take out a big task. >> everything they have told me and the speaker is that to get a big package, we require big tax increases in the middle of an
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economic situation that is extraordinarily difficult with 9.2% unemployment. it's a job killer. >> welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful shot. >> pretty. >> heading west, looking straight into new york city. great to have you with us. this morning, we have mike barnicle and john heilemann on set both channelling. with us, columnist for the wall street journal, peggy noonen. thank you for being here. >> we are going to stop it now. >> she was talking about her son. >> i was out of town. what did you write about this weekend? >> i have been away for two weeks out of the united states going to a series of celebrations in europe, in eastern europe and london of ronald reagan on his 100th anniversary. they raised statues to him in budapest and london.
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i was part of the reagan delegation that went and spoke. it was a fabulous, fabulous experience. >> was reagan big in budapest? >> reagan is big in budapest. when you go through america, republicans say, i loved ronnie. when you go to budapest, people walk up to you and say i loved president reagan because i am no longer in political prison. it's a different thing. >> it's a positive. >> it was a wonderful experience and marks the end of his festivities. >> it's more compelling than i think that guy is a good speech maker. >> the great communique tor. with weeks to go, congressional leaders are heading back to the white house for another meeting to raise the deal on the debt ceiling. after a 75 minute session, president obama is expected to
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hold a news conference this morning to discuss the deficit reduction efforts. deficit negotiations hit reset. visions on spending cuts and tax increases remain. the journal and others report last night, president obama urged leaders to strive for the largest package problem. saturday night, john boehner said he will seek a smaller deal and a larger agreement will not work because of differences on tax revenue. speaking on "meet the press" yesterday, tim giter said even less $2 trillion deal will require a lot of sacrifice. >> small deals are very tough, too. it requires very difficult reforms, savings and cuts in things people depend on that matter. it's hard to do a small deal,
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too. the president is going to work toward the largest we can do. the united states is not going to default. we are going to meet our obligations. the leadership in congress, republicans and democrats, house and senate understand that. speaker boehner said we are not going to default. he knows it would be catastrophic. >> the president remains committed to a larger plan. they question whether they will have the guts to do the tough things necessary? he's calling on the community to step up. you complain and wine about the system all the time. stand. get involved and make the statement that you need a balanced approach to solve the fiscal problems. >> after last night's white house meeting, house minority leader nancy pelosi said they hope for a bipartisan deal
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hoping it does not hurt the middle class. bidens bipartisan plan is the most viable option. >> le's give the president credit here. he went there during entitlements and social security, medicare, medicaid. that's what the white house is saying. republicans are claiming he backed up. if he's getting to $4 trillion, he had to put those on the table. >> i think there's, obviously, the devil is in the details and how it worked. it's been up for negotiation. i don't think there's a dispute claiming the president did not put all that stuff on the table and speaker boehner thought he wanted to join him after the secret meetings. boehner wanted to go big, too. then he faced the reality of the
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caucus. as led by eric cantor who made it clear he was not going to go along and the antitax purists made it clear they could not get on board for new revenue. >> peggy, $4 trillion outline. the president addressing social security, medicare, medicaid, pentagon spending. >> big stuff. >> it's dramatic. >> well, having been away for awhile, i'll tell you how it looks from somebody who was away. i can't be grumpy about anything we are talking about. we are not greece. we are not waiting for someone to save us. we are trying to save ourselves. the president is personally in the talks. when i left, he was not.
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they were talking big things having to do with spending. in america they were talking taxing. now it's spending and everybody agrees we want to cut on top of that. everybody seems to agree we can't just blow past the spending deadline. in a general sense, you know what i mean? america has to pay its bills. looking at all this, i remember the words of tom something, a philosopher. >> he was a great one. >> he was. >> he's world famous. actually -- >> yes. >> he said i meant to be a philosopher, but happiness kept breaking through. >> yeah. >> that's how i feel as i look at this. there's a lot of good going on. they are going to fight over not details but the size of the agreement. i'm glad they are talking and come to an agreement. >> they are talking. >> mike barnicle focusing on the president. he has done what he said we
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needed to do, pushing entitlement reform, medicare, medicaid, pentagon spending, bringing in the taxes that the republicans are fighting against. it sounds like at least we are getting a framework to start. >> he's been calling the meetings. he's been in the meetings. i find the most interesting aspect of this situation to be the personal as opposed to the political. if you look at the four principles, what the president of the united states is dealing with. nonsi pelosi, eric cantor. instinct tells you, john boehner is the best guy to deal with. it's fascinating. >> you look at them sitting around the table. it's fascinating. harry reid won't make eye contact with anybody. it's like when the president's
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get together and carter is like give me this side of the oval office and i'm fine. >> harry reid is like that. cantor doesn't act like he wants to be here. >> and people made fun of him. every tick tok has the beginning of this conversation starting at the gulf summit. it's when they started the secret meetings of them getting on board. >> if you spend time around john boehner, more than five minutes, you find out quickly, he is not an ideolog. i worked with him four terms. i never heard anybody knocking him. he's liked from the bob dole school or government. i never saw him get impassioned other an issue unless he felt he
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needed to because his caucus wanted him to be. that may be the type of guy that barack obama can relate with the most over at the white house. >> but here's the thing, joe. the big deal is dead. i mean we may have wanted it and loved it and had wonderful -- it is dead. boehner and obama -- >> what is dead? what is dead? >> the $4 trillion deal is dead. >> the big deal is never dead, pat. >> it is boehner's time, it is his moment. he ought to go back to his kau sus and say you done like this. i'm going to put together the deal that goes through the house and goes through the senate and we are going to send it down the street to the president and he ain't going to veto it. john boehner can be man of the hour. but he's got to get out of these negotiations with the president, excuse me, and get into negotiations with mitch
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mcconnell and joe manchin and nelson in the center and put together a center right deal and roll it across. it will go through. boehner will be the guy on the cover of every magazine, if he can rise to the occasion. >> they will kill him in the senate. >> work with mccon el and get every republican vote. if the senate kills it, it will be senate democrats. who will have shut down the government, joe? >> hmmm. >> i'm less focused on that than getting the big deal. i understand the politics of it. >> joe, the big deal is dead. >> pat, big deals are never dead. no. pat. >> boehner can't get it through the house. >> he needs a moment? does he mean the moment -- >> if john boehner tries to push
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through $1 billion in tax he is not speaker in a week. >> what if they say let's put together a series of tax loopholes that we're going to cut. we can raise a lot of revenue that way. we don't have to raise the level of income tax rates. but we get rid of these loopholes and then go out and say hey. we don't want exxon and general electric paying zero in taxes a year anyway. we don't want the oracle of omaha, the billionaire paying 14% in taxes either. hey, we think it's wrong millionaires pay 18% taxes while their secretaries pay 25% taxes. >> joe, i agree with you. >> that's a winning program -- >> it's winning if you are bringing down rates and it's
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revenue neutral. we would go for it in a second. a, we don't have time for it and b, it's got to be revenue neutral, which is not acceptable. >> you know what my mother would call you? >> what would she say? eyore. you are too negative. >> my mom would say that, too. >> how about boehner goes to obama, we have the cuts with $2 billion there, $2 trillion, there. we want other cuts as well. give me a two-week extension on this debt ceiling deal, okay. the guys and gals are going to work on closing loopholes for the oil companies for the billionaires, the tril nlion theirs, the ges of the world. they are obama tax rates now
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because he extended them. give us two more weeks, we'll get you the revenue, you give us medicare, medicaid. we can't afford it and the deal is done. and we'll go out golfing. >> it's not dead. it's not dead. >> number one, medicare, medicaid social security cuts will not go through the senate and the tax revenue increases split the republican caucus in the house and boehner will be out. >> you ought to be more like tiger. >> i would go to northwest florida right now. right now, i could campaign in northwest florida and make my entire campaign about making sure people that work their tails off and pay 25% in taxes should not pay a higher tax rate than warren buffett or exxon mobile or bp and i could get 85% in a very conservative district,
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pat. i would roll over any republican in the primary that tried to say i was for raising taxes. pat buchanan, meet me in northwest florida. i'm talking tax fairness, you better -- >> i went to a latin mass yesterday for an hour and a half. after it was over the deacon said you are not for raising that debt ceiling, are you? listen friends, they are out there. i think all boehner can do is get the debt ceiling raised with cuts. anything else, forget it. >> wow. >> you are too negative. by the way, his church by the way looks like one of those things out of harry potter. bats flying around. >> cobwebs everywhere. >> definition of political leadership to take on parts of your base and look at a
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situation where you don't have the votes. >> be realistic. >> don't get the votes. change the dynamic. get the votes. >> closing the loopholes and creating a system that is fair. that is a winning issue for republicans and democrats. you can raise more revenue that way. >> coming up, senator kay bailey hutchis hutchison. chuck todd, you are watching "morning joe."
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at the end of the day, what we are seeing is the priority of republican colleagues is not to get a deficit reduction deal. it's to protect special interest for big corporations. we have big oil gas companies and folks at the very top of the income ladder. you are protecting small businesses and mom and pops is just dead wrong. it's counter factual. i think we should put an end to
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that now. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at that picture of the white house as the sun comes up over washington. joining us now, republican senator from texas, senator kay bailey hutchison and political director and host of "the daily rundown," very busy, very powerful, chucked to joins us now. >> no doubt about it. so, senator, let's begin with you. is this debt deal dead? >> pat says it's dead. it's over. >> he's being a pessimist this morning. i say it's never dead. is the deal dead? >> it's never dead in washington. it's not dead. i do think we are at a cross roads and we have to come up with either plan a or b or c or
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d. >> yeah. >> that just -- >> well -- >> wow. >> and plan d. i'll take plan b. >> i'm going to close my eyes and pick one. >> chuck todd, let me ask you, what is your reporting inside the white house this morning? >> they are pushing the big deal. they are trying to figure out the big deal and they are telling eric cantor and john kyle their version, their interpretation of the biden plan, that plan b, the 2.5 can't get the votes and can't pass. they are pushing a bigger deal. i have a question for senator hutchison. if i told you a democratic senator was willing to put social security on the table, would you be willing to do that? it's a generational thing.
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the leader of a democratic party can force them to do something they don't want to do. >> i do think the president has been wise and bold in putting social security on the table. i also think it's common sense. when you know the table doesn't work anymore, you have to do something to fix this system. i think that fix is the right one. the one he's talking act is a good one. i have a social security plan on the table that i think is a good one. we should have entitlements on the table. however, you then say they have to put taxes in the pot, too. i just think that if you go out and talk to the business people especially the small ones in this country, they can't take one more pit and hire people. >> what about closing tax loopholes? all the tax loopholes we have heard about whether for oil companies or the tax loopholes
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that allow warren buffett to brag. it's just not right. that system is not fair. republicans can afford to go along with cut these tax loopholes to raise more revenue. >> absolutely. we are, at least i can say most are for tax reform. absolutely. cut the loopholes. do it fairly and across the board for everyone. i love to hear the oil companies are making so much money why shouldn't they pay more? if you tax people because they do well, you are going to start tearing down all of industry. it's not tax policy. >> what john boehner said he was willing to do was go one step further than that. he was going to allow the bush tax cuts on the higher, over $250,000 a year to expire if that was coupled with the kind of tax reform you are talking about. my question to you is, does that
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work for you politically? >> you can do tax reform, but you have to do it as a package. >> yes. >> you can't say for the promise of tax reform. yes. >> but you would be willing to write the tax cuts expire at the end of 2012 so long as it was coupled tax reform that makes fair and flatter rates and get rid of loopholes. >> if you have a tax reform that replaces the bush tax cuts that has a simpler two or three levels instead of more, i think all of us would like to look at that, yes. i'd be for tax reform. lower the rates so we are competitive globally. take away the loopholes. >> not all of you are willing to do that. by allowing the bush tax cuts to expire is a tax increase. >> tax reform would bring in more revenue, but it would be
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across the board and more fair. >> senator, is what we are talking about the closing of tax loopholes, flattening the rates within tax reform, is that possible over the next few weeks as part of a debt ceiling package? is that actually operationally possible? >> that's a very good question. i think it could be possible, yes. but if you can't do all of the tieing up of the loose ends, we have until mid august so we could be running through the committee system right now. i think all of us would work 24/7 to run it through the processes. if you could nlt, that's when you look at the short term fix and say okay, we are this close. we are all in agreement that is simpler, fairer tax code is the way to go. you are going through the committee process. maybe you do 30, 60 day extension with some cuts to make
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sure you are still going in the right direction. yes. >> this sounds like it could be a constructive conversation. chuck todd, you are covering the meetings. there's another one today. doesn't sound like they are that constructive when you hear the coverage over the weekend. >> it doesn't. there's two ways to go about it. is the president -- when does he decide he's going to back off his push for the big deal? is he going to push for a couple days and keep getting those. something you have to ask four or five times, take the no and eventually you might get the yes. does he have to draw a line? he's talked about the concern of defaulting and the fact you can't play games with this. that's also a message in negotiations saying look, he will be the first one to back down. he'll be the one to sign whatever short term deal is necessary. you know, i would love to see an
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experiment. if you took the leadership out of this and you basically said let the plan, let there be -- i think there are 218 votes in the house. i can't tell the make up of it and i think 60 votes in the senate to do this. if it's controlled by the leadership, it will not get there. if somehow leadership let everybody go and say make your own decision on this and you had different sets of whippings and all this stuff, i wonder if there's a majority. i bet there is. >> well, your leadership is not going to allow something to go through that doesn't have majority of their members. that's the democrats or republicans. i think you have to have leadership, particularly in the house where, you know, 435, it's hard to say okay, y'all have at it. you have to have a plan and be able to amend a plan to get something through, i think.
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>> all right, senator thank you for being with us. kay bailey hutchison, it's great and congratulations to the dallas mavericks. >> thank you, joe. what a concession. thank you. that was nice. >> we loved it. coming up -- >> go girls on usa soccer. >> amazing. >> amazing. >> what a game. >> chuck todd stay with us, if you will. coming up next, we continue our conversation with senator chuck shumer. keep it here on "morning joe."
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geithner and the head of the imf are saying if we default it would be catastrophic. we are not going to default. we have the money. the only way we will default is if secretary geithner and the president choose to default. they are required by law to pay the bills and they are required to pay social security and medicare. we don't need to panic. we would like to get the deal done. we will give the president an increase in debt limit but only if they send to the states an opportunity to ratify a balance to the constitution. >> the democratic senator from
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new york, senator chuck schumer who has more on his mind than balancing the nation's budget. >> absolutely. >> you have a problem with a-rod. >> big problem. >> you take steroids long enough -- >> we will have a compromise on the balanced budget before a-rod comes back to play. that's three to six weeks. >> on the balanced budget or debt ceiling? >> the debt ceiling. >> how does it happen? >> look, the first thing that should happen right now is the republicans are saying the biden plan, the biden plan. you know, they were for it before they were against it, now they are for it again. they walked out on the biden plan. there are determinations of what the biden plan is and speculation. by all accounts, it's a minimum of $400 billion, probably closer
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to $1 trillion short of the goal to get us past 2012. >> in cuts? >> whatever. deficit closing, cuts or revenues. cantor walked when they were talking revenues. let the republican leadership, embracing the biden plan say what they mean, what it is. nobody knows what it is. they have $1 trillion in cuts. we are $1.5 trillion away. look, they have walked out on everything. they walked out on the group, on the simpson-bowles. they walked out on the group of six. they walked out on the biden talks and now the president's grand deal. this idea that both sides are to blame, the president put on the table terribly painful things, democrats didn't walk out. >> fair enough. yeah, pat.
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>> pat, put it where it is. >> there you go, deal's not debt. >> senator schumer, if we could only get $1 trillion in cuts out of the biden plan, why not agree on that and do a six month or nine month raising of the debt ceiling and come back next year and settle it? >> it's playing with havoc. there's this thing out there, the markets. >> are you for a six-month deal? >> no. people want clayty. i listen to your show almost every morning in the jim, mr. scarborough. >> i want to divert the default. i love america. >> so does everyone. we will avert it. at the core, desprite the extremes on both sides, america is a problem solving country.
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to right now say six months, here is the problem. it's not up to you or me or boehner or the president. if we don't do a deal with some substance to it and a small kick the can down the road, this creature, the credit markets could say forget it, interest rates go up, not just for the government, that increases the debt by a large amount, they go up for homeowners, credit card holders and the economy goes down the drain. >> let's go to host of the daily rundown chuck todd. >> hi, chuck. >> how you doing, sir? is the senate going to put their own bill through first or make the house go first in this case? >> the only way this works is if there's an agreement both houses pass. to do the posturing, you do the
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bill and toss the hot potato. at this late date, it will slow things down. the right thing to do is sit at the table day after day after day. you know that works sometimes in ways you wouldn't imagine until there's a deal. the first step, we cannot have mr. cantor say let's look at the biden deal without telling us what he means by the biden deal and he should outline what he means. that will give us a start. >> senator, very quickly, how much of social security is on the table? we hear it's on the table but only in the way you hear boehner put $1 trillion in tax revenues on the table. we have never seen it. >> the bottom line is the president said he's willing to put it on the table because republicans insist. we all know that social security has not created this debt problem. it's a separate problem. it has to be dealt with.
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it doesn't create any -- it hauz money until 2037. when you make certain changes in social security, that money doesn't go to reduce the debt or the deficit. it goes into the social security fund. i think the president put it on the table to show the republicans he's willing to go the extra mile. but he called their bluff and they still said because we won't raise taxes on millionaires because we won't close any loopholes. kay bailey hutchison, god bless her, she's a good friend. you have to open other loopholes. she's not willing to do that to reduce the deficit. >> a question for pat, then peggy. eric cantor walked out of meetings, boehner saying no deal, won't work. we're not going to go for the grand plan. you are getting a lot of no's. you have the visual of the president calling the meetings
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again and again at the white house and giving on major things. >> you say again and again. it's not like -- >> he's held several meetings. >> the president has been engaged for a week. the president just showed up at the table recently. excuse me. >> you said again and again and again. >> there have been several meetings, there will be another one. >> all the things two weeks ago you were calling for the president to do, he did. >> hold on a second. let's just be clear about this, though. i said it at the 7:00 hour to everybody, the president has put social security on the table, medicare. i think it's positive. i'm just, the suggestion the president has been engaged is not the case. had he been doing this in may when a lot of writers were criticizing him on the left and
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the right, had he started this in may, we wouldn't be facing this. >> for peggy, would be how do you all get out of this thing without looking like you all killed it. sorry, pat first. >> very simple. senator schumer, john boehner on the 21st, 22nd of july, they pass an extension of the debt ceiling with say $1 trillion in cuts. are you telling me they would veto it or block it or let the government go into default rather than deal with that? i don't think so. >> let me say two things first, pat. right now, you have 40 republican congressmen who won't vote to increase any debt ceiling. >> right. >> you are going to need
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democratic votes for that. you are not going to get them for a plan that doesn't solve the problem, just cuts, no revenues at all. the second thing i would say is this. it related to mika's question. the good news here, because so many republicans have said they are -- they don't want to raise the debt ceiling. so many others have said we are only going to raise the debt ceiling if a,b,c, d. the pressure is going to fall greater on them than us. it will bring us to a larger table. >> peggy is that true? >> connected to that is the question, is august 2nd, as tim giter said some time back, is that the magic date it occurs or as bill clinton suggested we
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have give and take, maybe late august, early september. where does it stand? >> the house has kerosene all over it and someone is throwing matches at it. there's a chance someone lights it or it misses. there's a match august 3rd and august 4th. >> so it's the magic date? >> exactly. >> who tells you when the president is meeting with boehner and cantor, who tells you what happened at the talks? >> two groups, the president's advisers. >> they call you up and fill you in? >> yes, i was down there talking to them all last week and second, harry reid. he has been in good touch with me and the entire caucus. >> do you get the vibration their conversations are fractious? >> i got the feeling that the conversations were quite good until sunday, until yesterday.
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yesterday was fractious. >> senator schumer, thank you very much. >> smile joe. we'll get there. >> i know. i'm happy. i think the deal is going to get done. >> there's always a deal to get done. >> there's always a deal to get done. >> seriously. >> it's very negative right now. pat thinks the west is in rapid decline as well. i think we're in the second american century. >> just trying to get something done, joe. >> a true conservative. cranky. >> all right. chuck we'll see you at 9:00. more "morning joe" in a moment. can i have some ice cream, please ?
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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 47 after the hour. we have been talking about u.s. problems. >> yes. >> before that, greece crisis. >> that's the one to watch. >> spain, portugal, ireland. you bring up italy. policymakers are turning a very watchful eye to italy. fears are growing that greece's financial crisis could spread. european officials including the bank president are holding emergency meetings that are likely to be tough on growing concerns about market pressures in italy. it's the third largest economy with the debt, the gdp ratio of 120%. those numbers are devastating. they are second only to greece. we are going to have more on
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that meeting and the growing crisis in a little bit later on business before the bell. it is bad the world. >> no doubt. >> we are in better shape than those countries. we have a great opportunity, if we can seize it. how can we not seize it with american citizens like roger bennett with us. we are talking about the player who scored the game winner for the team's usa yesterday in the
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women's are we going to actually interview her? this is glorious. we'll be right back. . aflac! oh, i've just got major medical... major medical. ...but it helps pay the doctors. pays the doctors, boyyy! [ quack ] oh yeah? what about your family? ♪ we added aflac, so we get cash! it's like our safety net... ♪ to help with the mortgage or whatever we need! so my family doesn't feel the pain too. ha! [ male announcer ] help protect your family at aflac.com. [ pigeons ] heyyy! hooo!!! [ male announcer ] help protect your family at aflac.com. finally, there's a choice for my patients with an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem.
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win it for usa here. and she does! and the usa -- >> holy cow. with us now is espn's soccer analyst, roger bennett. usa, roger! usa!
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our team beat brazil. >> just off the bandwagon, once more, joe, at least until wednesday. what a remarkable day of soccer. >> why don't you tell us about it. >> the usa team, they've not been at their best, they're ranked number one in the world, they're playing against brazil. a women's team with the world's leading team, marta, played absolutely beautiful soccer. the usa went ahead early in the first minute, almost too early. they then fell into a slower rhythm. the brazilians were able to equalize. they're one person down. they go into extra time, an exquisite goal puts them 2-1 down. and in the last second of the game -- look at this. this is the red card. >> oh, come on! >> a very dodgy call. she's a graphic designer, very creative in design.
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the usa -- that's marta. you'll see her soon on the wheaties box. makes the save and then marta does that. the brazilian men's team could use her. she is a true forward. >> so brazil pulls ahead 2-1 and you're thinking, it's over. >> everyone's thinking, it's over. >> they have one player less. >> it's 2-1. >> they go into extra time and look at this! >> oh, my goodness! >> that's in the last second of the game. >> oh, my gosh. >> when she was asked after the game about what happened there, men players don't speak like this. they're not as articulate, she said, this is paefa perfect exa of what this country is all about. she coolly puts that penalty away and the u.s. dig deep, a gutsy, gutsy win that thrills
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the nation. they will play wednesday. >> roger, it was magic! >> it was absolutely -- >> magic! and with us now, speaking of magic, with us now, via skype from germany, the woman who scored the winning penalty kick -- >> alley creager! good to have you on the show. >> thank you so much for having he. i really appreciate it. nice to meet you. >> were you able to see those replays? have you been watching the replays of the final goal? >> you know, i wish i could say that i have. you know, i've been so overwhelmed with all the support from home, you know, coming back to the hotel, spending a few moments with my family after the game, and haven't really been able to see much of it until now. and i've just been smiling the whole time when you guys have shown this. it was an amazing day and full of joy and we were so, so happy. i'm so proud of my teammates. >> that's the difference between you and joe, ali. because if he did that, he'd be
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watching it on a loop. >> oh, stop it. roger bennett is with us. >> i definitely had videos put on my facebook wall and on a bunch of people follow me on twitter now and getting all that love and support from home. so i've been able to, you know, catch the videos this morning. >> that's great. >> it was amazing. >> ali, a penalty shoot-out is taken from 12 yards away. for a professional soccer player, it should be like hitting the side of a barn door. but in the penalty shoot-out, others missed, but it's an incredible psychological pressure. can you describe what it felt like to take that fifth kick with the world watching? >> when i was the one decided to take the fifth, our goalie coach, paul, had told me, all right, creager, you're number five. i just looked at him and all of a sudden i just felt this confidence and there was no question in my mind that i would love to take it. so we all just step up. and honestly, there was nothing
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that went through my mind as i'm going up to the ball. all of a sudden i had this pressure release from me and i didn't really think about it. i just knew i wanted to put it in, and we needed to win, and i was going to do anything i could to be successful and help this team go out with a win. i don't know, i felt this pressure because, you know, everyone did so well on the penalty kicks, and put every single one away, so i had to do the same. >> ali creager, thank you so much! >> well, congratulations! and good luck against france! >> thank you so much. hope you guys check it out. >> barnicle's going to be cheering for france, but we're with you! team usa! >> there's no way. >> it's going to find a lot of support for beating the french. >> we'll be taking the ride home this wednesday, because it was a heartstoper. >> a heck of a match. don't you love that. when she found out she was number five, i didn't think anything. i was glad i was the one --
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>> and put it in. >> absolutely. those are the ones you want there. >> ali creager. >> thank you, roger. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ my only sunshine ♪ you makes me happy ♪ when skies are grey ♪ you'll never know, dear ♪ how much i love you
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e. this president is committed to bringing economic soundness to this country. and that takes a big deal. a lot of pain, politically. democrats are obviously very upset that the president has talked about pain on their side of the aisle, basically. and republicans are saying, no way we give tax relief to the
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middle income americans. they're concentrated on trying to bring continued tax relief to the wealthy. >> reporter: good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast. as you take a live look at new york city. welcome to "morning joe." back with us on set, mike barnicle and john heilemann and steve rattner, along with pat buchanan in washington. >> a lot going on right now. you know, friday, saturday, there was the talk of the grand bargain, $4 trillion. boehner backed off, saying it was zoigoing to look more like trillion. what happened? >> boehner couldn't sell any kind of tax cuts to his caucus. boehner, i have to say -- i'm sorry, tax increases. thank you. still early. i must say, a year ago, i'm not sure i would have sat here and thought of boehner as a constructive force, but i think he's trying to bring this group together, and i think he's got an incredibly unruly group on
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his side. when you see what the candidates are saying out on the campaign trail, pawlenty and bachmann and so forth, they're so dug in, they're not going anywhere. >> they've signed pledges, made promises, they're not going to raise taxes or bring them back to the normal levels, however you want to put it. they're not going to do it. >> so pat buchanan, boehner backed off a $4 trillion goal and actually in part because "the washington post" was supporting that his number two in charge, eric cantor, let him know, he will not go along with it and conservatives won't as well. where do we stand this morning on a budget deal that's got to get done? >> actually, joe, i think we're in pretty good shape, comparatively. boehner stepped away from the $2 trillion in taxes because he wouldn't speaker two weeks from now if he'd gone along with them. i think the situation where you saw boehner over the weekend or just yesterday say, i think maybe we've got to go to the biden cuts is exactly right. boehner can now put together his entire caucus, which is a
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majority, bring along a few democrats, pass the biden cuts, send them over to the senate, work with mitch mcconnell and guys like joe manchin, pass their $2 trillion in budget cuts, extending the debt ceiling, and send it down to barack obama's white house and say, take it or leave it, mr. president. and he will take it. joe, the republicans are in the cat bird seat, if they would only realize it. get the taxes off the table, pass an extension of the debt ceiling. if it's only for ten months, fine. but get some cuts and send them down there. the bond market, look, there's only -- i moon, the ten-year bond is getting 3%. they're not panicking. they know a deal can be made. >> but steve rattner, if they go the biden way, you're talking about mainly about domestic discretionary spending. the tax code, which even "the wall street journal" says the tax code needs to be reformed. there are inequities there that allow corporations to pay zero,
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that allow billionaires to pay 14% of their taxes. that allow people making $1 million or more to pay on average 18% of their taxes. so if you just go for the biden deal, that's off the table and you don't touch entitlements, and suddenly, there's no long-term economic fix. >> there is no long-term economic fix. look, the biden deal is wrong on policy grounds for all the reasons you just said. it's completely a distorted way pip commend biden for having gotten us there, but it's incomplete. it needs other pieces to be a balanced approach to this problem. and i disagree with pat on the politics. i don't think you get it through the senate. i think you have an enormous revolt on the democratic side and i think you have a stalemate. and i don't think republicans are at all in the cat bird seat on this. i think it's a food fight that's going on and i think the president's hanging tough and should hang tough. >> mike barnicle, i think this is one of the few times republicans are actually -- i'll side with pat here -- i think they hold cards because these are people who are saying since
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january the 4th when they got sworn in, we're not going to raise the debt ceiling without significant long-term cuts. i came back and told you that after day one, when they got sworn in. and that's always been their position. and they will -- pat buchanan wrote an op-ed this past week that talked about the establishment under panic. they're not under panic. they will sit there and stare at barack obama, and i'll bet you, i'll just bet you they will not blink. >> they might not blink and they do have cards in their hands, but how are they going to play these cards? if you listen to what bill daley said yesterday, it's kind of interesting. he basically frameworked the coming election, when he said, you know, the question is really going to be now, are the republicans so ideologically driven that they have provided with us a totally dysfunctional government that is the real wet blanket, his phrase, on the growth of the economy, that companies, corporations, small business, big business are afraid to make a move, because they are unable to figure out
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what will happen in washington. >> well, john heilemann, we've got a guy down in washington, d.c. that i'm sure when you mention 1992 will get a big toothy grin on his face. because -- see, look at that. there he goes. and he knows where i'm going, because george h.w. bush in 1988 said, read my lips, no new taxes. just like these freshman that got elected, not only in washington, but across all america, signed pledges. over 1,000 republican candidates signed pledges in what we know 2010 happened to be, the biggest nationwide landslide on state and national level, i think in u.s. history. and they're sitting there going, wait a second, it's not like we didn't promise voters that this was going to be the core of our message if we got elected. so what if they decide to go with boehner. have they not set themselves up
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to be abused by the pat buchanans of 2012 and lose their seats two years later? >> well, maybe. and clearly, you know, what i think we learned over this last weekend is that john boehner said he didn't want to be speaker just to have the name, he wanted to do big things, and i think what he learned over the weekend, he's not really the speaker of the house. eric cantor is the speaker of the house. >> is the important for these candidates who made pledges to their constituents to keep their word? >> well, they've made lots of pledges and some of them are contradictory. and they also say they're really in favor of trying to fix the long-term fiscal picture for the country and get the deficit down. and one of the ways you have to do that is through taking an approach that puts everything on the table. that's what we all -- i actually just want to think about the policy for a second and who has behaved in a way that, again, according to a lot of people at this table, is in accordance with reality. the president was willing to confront his base on friday. we've criticized president obama correctly for the last three
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months, for punting on the budget. now president obama gets up and says, withtime going to put entitlements on the table, medicare, medicaid, social security -- social security, nancy pelosi and a lot of the democrats went crazy on friday, saying, we can't believe barack obama's doing this. he's willing to put a lot of political capital on the table. and willing to talk about everything. but if -- revenues being part of that, but also everything else. and what john boehner ended up doing, said he was willing to talk about it until eric cantor told him not to and john boehner ran away from it. that may be a good assessment of the political reality, but showing a lot less courage than the president shows. >> so that is one narrative that came out from the white house this weekend. i will tell you the narrative from capitol hill was that boehner started to back away when he saw that suddenly all of these entitlement cuts became nebulous. kind of like, remember the government shutdown that was going to save us $38 billion and ended up costing us $3 billion.
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pat buchanan, there is a feeling among republicans in washington, not just now, but when i was there, and i'm sure even before that, anytime you try to cut, there are always gimmicks. there are always triggers. there are always ways that they get you in the end. and you turn around and a $38 billion cut ends up being a $3 billion spending increase. that's how washington works. that's how they win. >> joe, i was in the white house, i went in there in 1985 and ronald reagan pulled me aside and i asked him about his tougher deal bob dole cut in the 1982, i believe it was. and he said, pat, they promised me $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in taxes i gave them. i got $3 in taxes for every $1 in spending. now, let me go to your point, joe. you're exactly right about tax reform, lowered rates and get rid of these deductibles and exemptions. that's good politics. we can't do that in ten days. here's where boehner's
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opportunity lies. he can come back to that caucus and take the lead in resolving this thing. president obama, with due respect, is out to lunch if he thinks he's going to get $2 trillion in taxes. he can stop talking about it. boehner can get -- craft this thing to go across to the senate. how, one of the folks up there said, well, the senate won't take it. fine! let the liberal democrats veto the thing and then the house can pass another debt ceiling and send it over with less can cuts until they finally take it. the truth is, the republicans have got to pass the debt ceiling and they've got to have major cuts on there. and if they can't get them out of the senate and the president and they veto it and stop it, who has shut the government down? >> the question i have, if we get to something so we don't have to go beyond this deadline, is it good for the economy, because it allows us to move on? i want to talk to ratner about that. but quickly, there was this 75-minute meeting at the white house yesterday, because that's where everything was supposed to get quickly done. they were going to hammer out a
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deal. i turned on the tv and nobody was covering it. white house chief of staff bill daley says the president remains committed to a larger plan, but he questions whether the country's leaders have the guts to do the tough things necessary to improve the economy. >> i do firmly believe that one of the wet blankets on this economy and on companies, on the system right now is a question as to whether or not our political system, whether the leaders can get together, whether they can solve big problems or are they going to just kick the can. if you look at statements of the ratings agencies who have questioned the fiscal soundness of this country, it's about our political system, not being willing or able, seemingly, to take on big tasks. what i say to the business community is, you complain and whine about the political system all the time. get involved. stand -- get involved and make the statement about the fact that you need a balanced approach to solve our fiscal problems. >> so, see, where do we go from here?
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>> well, i think bill daley has a point, first of all, about the business community and the lack of confidence. i think one of the best things washington can do right now for the business economy and the community is to get its act together in a way that showed people there was some leadership and some activity down there. >> now both sides are using the phrase, "kick the can down the road." if we do something, and even if it's not enough, and clearly, that's what we're talking about now, does that help the economy? does that at least get movement going? >> well, it depends on what -- the biden cuts, though, they don't really go after medicare. they don't go after tax reform. they don't go after medicaid. they don't go after cutting the defense. >> i think there's a couple things, first of all -- >> i mean, if we're just talking about cutting domestic discretion, that is not helpful at all. >> no, it's not helpful at all in the long run. we need to have a balanced approach. first of all, in contrast to what pat said, nobody's talking about $1 trillion of tax cuts.
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i think the most anybody -- of tax increases, excuse me, john, thank you. the most anybody might talk about is $1 trillion of tax increases in a balanced pan that includes the kind of spending cuts you're talking about. includes dealing with entitlements and dealing with defense and balancing those cuts out. >> pat? >> steve, excuse me, look. the republicans have made a commitment to the american people they won't raise taxes. it's against their principles, against their economic philosophy. can someone tell me why you would add $500 billion or $1 trillion or $2 trillion in tax hikes on an economy that we just found out is flat on its back and being sent into intensive care? whether you're a monitorist, a keynesian, or a supply-sider, you don't raise taxes on the private sector when the economy's in trouble. mika says, how can we get business to start hiring? is there anyone who thinks putting $1 trillion on business, they're going to say, hey, this is great! we've got $1 trillion in new taxes, let's go out and create
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jobs? . >> pat, one issue is the long-term fiscal issue we have, with $14 trillion in debt and all these other obligations, it has to be dealt with and dealt with now, or at least the start -- >> steve, let me respond to that. this problem is a problem, the fact that the federal government is spending 25% of the gross national product in rising, or the that we're now collecting 15%. >> okay, so then he actually has a chart that will help you respond to that. >> let me show you where this deficit comes from. if you look at the deficit today of $1.5 trillion, and let's break it into some continues. $400 billion of that came from the bush tax cuts. if the bush tax cuts hadn't happened, we would have $424 billion less deficit at the moment. another $1 trillion came from spending above the rate of gdp. in other words, spending under the bush administration grew at
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8% compounded annual rate. that created about $1 trillion of spending, about 40% in entitlements, about 60% in other things like defense. the obama stimulus plan, what's left of it, is only $134 billion this year. so if you add it all together, pat, if we had not done the bush tax cuts, if he had kept spending under control, you'd have a $47 billion surplus at the moment. >> all right, let me talk now. look. that spending, some of us stood against no child left behind, some of us stood against the war in iraq. some of us said, don't try to build a nation in afghanistan. stop spending all this money. when the democrats came in in 2009, they increased virtually every department 10%. it is to 25% of the gross national product the feds are taking and about 12 to 15 the state and local are takie gtaki. that's why they are all cutting back and the federal government has got to cut back. >> pat, pat, pat, pat -- >> you raise taxes on this economy now, you will drive this
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economy deeper into recession if you put $1 trillion in taxes on it. >> pat, i don't disagree with cutting spending. all i'm trying to tell you is that 75% of how we got in this problem was spending and 30% of how we got in problem was cutting taxes that we couldn't afford. and i think a balanced approach, just like what bowles/simpson proposed happens to be 70% spending reductions, 30% tax increases. >> this is one place i agree with krugman. jobs, jobs, jobs are the thing. we've got to create jobs. how does hammering business with $1 trillion in tax increase when government is slowly going down in size, hammering business too, which created the only jobs we've got, how does that help? >> after 18 years in the u.s. senate, including a tenure as chairman of the intelligence e committee, bob graham has channeled his intel expertise into something new, writing fiction. we'll hear about his first
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novel, a political spy thriller, and why it needed cia approval before going to press. that's coming up. plus, the woman behind facebook. "the new yorker's" kenna letta takes a closer look at facebook's coo, cheryl sandberg, and how she's taking on silicon valley's male-dominated culture. and an early look at how the markets are responding this morning to friday's dismal jobs report. but first, we'll go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill >> good morning, mika. really bad weather headed through wisconsin and illinois. heads up to everyone in the chicago area. you have about an hour until these dangerous thunderstorms arrive on your doorstep. we're tracking them right over rockford. they'll move just to the north of chicago and just to the south of milwaukee over the next hour or two. already reports of 70-mile-per-hour winds, semitrucks been pushed off the road and overturned. dangerous weather, again, in chicago, that's going to come through about an hour from now. i'm sure o'hare airport's going to have significant morning delays. forecast in the east today, nice and warm, no problems there. feeling like summer and still brutally hot in the middle of the country.
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you're watch "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. [ grunts ] [ male announcer ] built like a volkswagen. the 2011 tiguan. [ grunts ]
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, former democratic senator from florida, bob graham, who is out with a new novel. "keys to the kingdom." peggy noonan and luke russert also back at table. so, joe, i give you the keys to the kingdom. >> it is fascinating! what you do in this book, senator, is what i find david
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ignatius does. where he's got so many facts, but he can't write it as nonfiction, or else it would can kill him. so he writes it as fiction. but all cia agents i talk to say ignatius knows and describes what really goes on better than any nonfiction writer and you're doing the same thing here. >> well, that's high praise to be put into david's category. but it is true that i had originally thought of writing this as a nonfiction book, but my experience was that so much of it would be censured because it would be classified that i couldn't do it that way. so following the advice of an old friend, joe nye, i decided to write it as a novel. and i'm very pleased with the outcome and i hope that the american people will find this an interesting read, plus they will learn a lot. >> they'll learn a lot. it's a fascinating read. but also, the information that you deliver about the events surrounding 9/11, the buildup to it, the aftermath, just
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absolutely shocking. >> yeah. it is shocking for many americans, because they haven't heard this before. because in large part, it has been kept from the american people. >> what will surprise them the most. >> well, i think, maybe what will surprise them the most is the denim of saudi involvement. most americans know that there were 15 saudis out of the 19. many americans know about the special treatment of saudis after 9/11 when they were flown out. what they don't know is that before 9/11, there was significant assistance being given by the saudi government itself and organizations that are dependent on the saudi government to at least two of the hijackers, and the question is, what about the other 17? and why were the saudis doing this and why was the u.s. government covering it up? >> and why can't we get any answers, especially on those two? even all these years later, even your book doesn't uncover
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exactly what was happening, why -- does the united states government kind of a don't ask, don't tell approach to the saudis on this issue? >> there are a lot of explanations as to why we treated the saudis with such kid gloves. one is our dependence on the saudis for their oil. another is the special relationship between the bush family and the house of the saud. but for whatever reason, there's been a very extensive and thus far effective effort to keep the saudi's role out of the public mind. >> peggy? >> what's the name of the saudi prince who is so much a friend of members of the american -- >> bandar. >> bandar bush they once called him, that was the nickname. >> right, bandar. is there a prince bandar character in this book? >> yes, there is. another element of this book is a situation involving a corrupt relationship between a british defense contractor and certain saudi princes, which is like 40%
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of the novel true. and bandar was the principle beneficiary of that corrupt relationship. >> talk about that for a minute. if you could tell american people about the united states' relationship with saudi arabia, specifically within defense contracting, what are the numbers here? how many billions are we talking here? how much are they engrained within our defense contracting culture? >> well, when president roosevelt and king saud made the agreement back in world war ii that the saudis would provide us an ensured source of petroleum, we would provide them with defense cover, that kind of sealed the deal that the saudis were going to become a major customer of the united states for military equipment. this corrupt relationship was somewhat with of a break from that when the saudis felt that they had become too reliant on u.s. military equipment and went to the british to buy 71 fighter jets. but it's a very big number. it's an important part of the
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u.s. military industrial output. >> senator, we have pat buchanan with us from washington. pat? >> hi, senator. >> hey, pat. >> i want to ask you, are you suggesting or implying that the saudi government aided and abetted two of the 9/11 hijackers in the knowledge that they were going to conduct an attack on the united states of america? >> no, i don't go that far. what i do say is that the saudis agreed through their agents in the united states to give assistant assistance to these two people without asking the question, why are they in the united states. >> but they just made a mistake, you're suggesting -- >> no, i'm not suggesting -- >> -- something malevolent, is it? >> when osama bin laden comes to the roim family ayal family and you don't provide us with these agents, which is critical, because these people don't speak
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english, they've never been to the united states before, they're going need somebody to provide them support and anonymity while they're here, the saudis agree to that without asking any questions, i think that makes them a culpable party. >> so what does that mean? why did that happen? >> i think it happened because bin laden threatened that if they didn't provide this assistance, that he would start civil advectiin insurrection. the saudis has been traumatized by what happened in iran in 1979, which was a youth-led revolution. and bin laden drew the painting that the same thing was going to happen -- >> and that's a divide of the country, right? you have the royal family as well as the religious power consistently in strife, with correct? and that evolves into a lot of what happens with bin laden? >> and it also evolves into the royal family providing substantial financial assistance to these extremist religious groups, such as the madrossas.
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>> senator, before you go, given requester ties to florida, the bp compensation fund. they've used $4.5 billion from it. and they announced on friday, they want to seek to end payments for future losses, in part because the economy's doing so well down there. do you buy it? >> no, i don't buy it. they had originally committed to $20 billion. they then went in to a -- >> what's going on here? >> well, i think what they're trying to do is avoid paying out -- >> get out of it. >> to skip out on their responsibilities. >> is there anything that can be done? >> yes, i think the united states government ought to say, this is the deal that you made. we're going to be sure that all of the people who were injured, like so many of joe's friends in pensacola, get compensated. >> i'll tell you what, florida is hurting so much. unemployment rate at 10%. i can tell you in northwest florida, pensacola, areas where you grow up, obviously, in
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defuniak springs, all across that area, people are still facing the devastating consequences of this bp oil spill. >> yeah. you know, one of the early statements by hayward, the ceo of bp was, give me my life back. i think that's sort of set the tenner of how bp is going to be relating to this. they're more focused on getting their own economic life back than they are on meeting the needs of those people who suffered by their actions. >> and it's time for those of us in northwest florida, who suffered like this, to get their lives back. >> yeah. >> well, the book is "the keys to the kingdom," senator graham, thank you so much for coming in to talk about this. >> we all made your fact book today, i hope. >> absolutely. >> up next, "the new yorker's" ken auletta, with a revealing look at one of the most powerful women in american business, facebook coo, sheryl sandberg. also, business for the bell. we'll be right back. ♪
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you like that? no passport required. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe". >> hey, with us now, best-selling author and writer for the new yorker, ken auletta. and again, i want to know, it is
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sexist for me to just say what a beautiful man he is? >> it is, actually. >> knno, i think the better wor is "awkward." >> tan, rested, beautiful. you either just came back from the vineyard or sun valley. which was it? >> it was sun valley. >> you can just see it on his face! >> but i got no sun in sun valley. i got it from playing tennis and softball. >> in the hamptons? yeah. okay. >> he didn't want to say that. >> and he's not going to feel bad about that either. >> i'm not asking him to. i want that life. anyway, he profiles's facebook sheryl sandberg in the magazine's new issue, asking whether she can end up in silicon valley's male dominated world. >> i would say the answer is, yes, she can, upend the male-dominated culture. >> she already has. >> tell us how. what have you found out about
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her? >> first of all, she was larry summers' chief of staff at age 30 in the white house, i mean, in the treasury department. she goes and joins google in late 2001. she builds their online sales, which is roughly, you know, accountable for almost $30 billion of revenue today. 4,000 people work for her. in 2008, she's recruited by mark zuckerberg to create a business out of facebook. and she did that. she's coo of facebook and she's a powerful figure. she's on the board of disney and starbucks, which you're all drinking here. and she's a success. >> so how she's doing? what's her management style? >> actually, it's a very collaborative management style. she befriends the people who work for her. she's very inclusive. she asks a lot of questions, but she's tough as hell. she fires people when she has to. but she thinks a lot, belatedly, by the way, about women's issues. about what the role of women are and how to recruit them and she's recruited a fair number of
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female executives to facebook. >> how is she in internal politics, office politics? as you know, the game is much more treacherous for women internally than it is for men, who can scream and yell and throw punches and then go to a yankees' game that night. >> she sits about as far as away from mark zuckerberg in an open newsroom office as far as mika is from me. their relationship is very good. he said to me, he said, i am totally dependent on her. he said, because she frees me to do the things i want to do, which is creating product for facebook. she's dealing with monetization, she's dealing with washington, southeast dealing with marketing. she's dealing with all the things a creative guy like that doesn't want to deal with. >> what did she tell you, kn, about what it was like to arrive in an utterly male-dominated place like silicon valley when she went out there?
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what was it like for her? >> you know, she is not particularly conscious of that. i mean, one of the things that's interesting about her, i profiled her as a way of profiling women in silicon valley. and she's very late to the feminist game. i mean, at harvard, she organized a women's group, but really to try to get more young women to study government and economics. and at facebook, she's helped a woman's group to invite women speakers, but it wasn't with a sense that we have to go after men, we have to even the playing field. her message is, we have to blame ourselves, not blame others. you know, it's like black power. it's like, don't blame whitey, blame yourself. it's like therapy programs. ion, don't blame your parents, blame yourself. >> and so what effect has her rise had on the position of women out there? >> she is not seen as a threatening person by the male-dominated male culture. she's a very charming person, a very attractive person, a really
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smart person, and she has real humility, so she knows how to listen. but eventually, she makes decision and they work for her. >> she hire a lot of women? >> a lot. >> mika? >> what about -- i hate this word, because there isn't any balance, but i've talked to her a little bit about this and i'm reading that you've really gotten behind the scenes in terms of her thinking and the work at home, as well, raising a family and how it's done. and she does not impede herself with a lot of the chores at times. she has others do them and she deals with the guilt of that, but she moves beyond it. >> she argues, as you do in your book, that the key to successful woman executive is having a male partner. if you have a male that doesn't -- your husband doesn't participate in taking care of the child and work, you're doomed. and her argument is that if she's away at 6:00, they have kids 3 and 6 years old, her husband, who's an entrepreneur as well, and a successful one, is home at 6:00.
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so she has a partner. and she says she couldn't do it without a partner. >> and there's also help in the house. >> lots of house. i mean, she's a millionaire, many times over. >> it gets done, and not by her at times. >> just like heilemann. do you think heilemann's stories write themselves? no, he's got a lot of help. >> i outsource it all to bangalore. all the writing. >> really interesting. i'm a huge fan. >> but how much do you think the culture in silicon valley has changed? for a long time, the key issue with the resistance towards women there was that it was a technical culture and there weren't that many women computer scientists. do you think that the valley is changing also to become more -- because she's not a technical person, and normally that would have been a barrier for her, but not at facebook. >> it's not a barrier for her because of her style. she has a simple style of asking questions. to use a stereotype, it's a very feminine style, but she's tough as nails. when she walked into facebook, they said, she's not a suit.
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she had this way about her, she's not a business person. she's not preoccupied by making money. she understands the importance of the engineers, but, john, and i think the key is, only 20% of engineers in the valley are female. and that's a real problem. and it's one of the reasons why if you look at the boards of these venture capital firms, very few women are on those boards. and very few women are funded -- women entrepreneurs are funded in the valley. and that's partly a reflection of the lack of engineers. >> no women on facebook's board either. >> no. in fact, i asked her, why aren't you on the facebook -- she said, well, it's not important to me. and her friends feel, and i quote pat mitchell as saying, she should be on that board. >> "the new yorker's" ken auletta, fascinating, thank you so much. let's get a check now on business before the bell with cnbc's simon hobbs on the floor of the new york stock exchange. >> simon, everything's blowing up in washington! kaboom! pat buchanan says -- descending from the heavens. >> we don't keep a triple digit loss on the dow at open. we've got oil about to tumble.
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i'm afraid for a year we've been chasing around grace, trying to keep the european contagion from spreading to the bigger economies. and italy came around attack from the markets. that has continued today, and i'm afraid there's a lot of concerns about where we're going with it. guys, back to you. >> wow. >> oh, my gosh. so italy, and what do we think? what are the predictions on italy? >> it's actually looking quite bleak, because the way in which the speculations are attacking, you've got all the bomb spreads are blowing out and the politicians seem to me very much behind the curve. the europeans are thinking that greece may be let go through a bankruptcy. which is what we were trying to avoid for so long. it's difficult to pull out a positive strand at the moment. >> boy, it is bleak. simon hobbs, thank you so much. i hope things get better down there. coming up next, a final thank you and good-bye from britain's best-selling tabloid, the latest fallout from the
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phone hacking scandal on "morning joe." somewhere in america, there's a doctor who can peer into the future. there's a nurse who can access in an instant every patient's past. and because the whole hospital's working together, there's a family who can breathe easy, right now.
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47 past the hour. after weeks of controversy, resignations and arrests, britain's "news of the world" published its last issue on sunday. it comes as its rooival, "the mirror," claims today that a new york police officer asked for voice mails of 9/11 victims. stephanie gosk reports on the "news of the world's" demise and its final day. >> with the ink barely dry on the final edition of news of the world, 80-year-old media baron rupert murdoch traveled to the uk to do damage control.
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on display, his unqualified support of melissa brooks. smiles for the cameras, but calls for brooks to resign are growing louder. one of the most damaging allegations the paper faces is the phone hacking of a 13-year-old murder victim. the charismatic redhead was editor of "news of the world" at the time. >> if she goes, that puts a spotlight on rupert murdoch's son, james, and if he is vulnerable, rupert murdoch himself is in the frame. so to some extent, she's a lightning conductor. >> reporter: murdoch's son is widely seen as his father's heir apparent. >> james murdoch and melissa brooks can deny knowledge, but they certainly cannot deny responsibility. >> reporter: brooks clings to her job even as hundreds of "news of the world" employees have lost theirs. fired suddenly with just a promise that news corp will do its best to find them new positions. one employee reported brooks
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taking tough questions from an openly hostile staff. >> you're calling our newspaper toxic. the final edition had a thank you and good-bye. inside, an editorial read quit simply, "we lost our way." the tabloid is finished. prime minister david cameron is being publicly criticized for hiring another former editor of "news of the world," andy colson, as his spokesman. he was arrested last week for his alleged involvement in the phone hacking and payments to police officers for news tips. >> wow. >> that was nbc's stephanie gosk reporting on britain's labor party -- >> i'm not really good with british news, but that's not good, is it, mike? that's some bad news. >> peggy, we were just talking off air, and she says she hates to see the death of a newspaper, as do i, as i'm sure does john heilemann, but if it's a newspaper, run it like a
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newspaper. not like a clandestine spy agency. >> you know, there's been a long time when the british liberal establishment has wanted to take murdoch out. right now, "the guardian," more than anybody else, driving the story, and they see murdoch as their nixon and this is their watergate moment where they can kill murdoch as a political force in britain. >> absolutely. part of it is politically driven, but still, it is a dreadful story. i was in england when the milly doweler party of it broke. the little girl who had been abducted and murdered and they hacked into her phone and her parents thought that she might be alive because cell phone messages had been deleted. it's really, really bad. >> it's horrific. >> there's a piece in "newsweek" about this, its impact on journalism overall. more "morning joe" in just a moment.
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hey, tomorrow on "morning joe," chairman of the house budget committee, representative paul ryan -- >> that'll be good. >> -- will be our guest. also, t. boone pickens. >> oh, yes! >> it gets no bigger than that! ♪ ♪ hey, dad, you think i could drive?
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welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. let's start with the great patrick buchanan. pat, what did you learn? >> joe, i learned that this thing is going to end, this budget ceiling is going to end either with john boehner denounced and repudiated by his base or barack obama in deep trouble with his base. >> okay, no happy scenarios from pat. >> i learned that it might end
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with john boehner and eric cantor in a mud wrestling match. >> a few weeks ago, i learned that the buffalo bills have new jerseys. these jerseys are going to lead us to the promised land. this is the closest i'll ever get to my dream of being quarterback for the buffalo bills. going all the way in these new threads. >> that will take you all the way to the promised land, ni niagara falls. what did you learn? >> i was told that the philosopher i was quoting was 18th century scottish metaphysician who said, "i meant to be a philosopher, but happiness kept breaking through." >> what did you learn? >> pat buchanan's brand of constant pessimism is what rules the day in washington. we're never going to get anywhere. he needs to believe in a brighter future. >> what did you learn, mika? >> what i learned from you today is there's always